am i the only one who wonders if we’ll ever see/hear about kaneki’s cousin again? what did he think about his mom neglecting kaneki? was he thankful for kaneki’s mother giving his family all that money? they lived together for nearly seven years, what did kaneki and his cousin think of eachother? what did he think when kaneki went ‘missing’? i mean all we really know about him is that he was kaneki’s age and got bad grades, but if they lived with eachother for most of their tween/teenage years, they must of had /some/ impact on eachothers lives.
I actually think about this a lot. Someone once brought up how Kaneki’s cousin was given a full name and nobody else in his family, including his aunt, had one specified. It kind of prompts you to wonder if he was specifically given a full name for a reason – if he would be significant later on.
V’s contact person on Kaneki is clearly Arima, not Furuta, right? I mean, it doesn’t make any sense for them to call Arima if they want to talk to Furuta. Furuta has a cell phone, one that he seems to have no problem using to call Aogiri. So despite the fact that Furuta uses a more familiar form of address for Arima than Arima does for Furuta (still not over Kishou-san), it seems like Arima is V’s contact on this.
Which I suppose makes sense – Arima was certainly attached to any projects involving Kaneki long before Furuta was actively involved.
But I still think it’s weird that Arima approaches him, rather than Furuta being called himself.
I’m probably just being paranoid about things. This is certainly a much more visually interesting way to reveal the information.
But I have this tiny little flicker of doubt still, which will probably be crushed with the next chapter, that maybe Arima and Furuta aren’t with V, but rather looking into V. I mean, what with Furuta clearly leaking details to Aogiri and being ambiguously a Clown and such.
Arima, as high as he is in the CCG probably has access to information about V if anyone outside of the Washuus do, and it’d be really interesting if he were informing on them to Furuta, either from within the organization or from outside of it.
(Everyone just assumes he’s uninterested in the politics enough not to be as secretive as they should be – Arima who skips out on meetings and is super blunt about things, and doesn’t get tangled up in that sort of thing.)
I don’t know. If you had asked me before :Re, I wouldn’t have thought so, but wouldn’t it be interesting…
V is set up as pretty unambiguously an antagonist, even if they are a kind of enemy of our enemy sort of thing with Eto. They are upholding a status quo that Ishida makes very clear is no good for anyone, and they make Yoshimura kill Ukina. They are not good guys.
Arima, on the other hand, is set up way, way more ambiguously. And while Tokyo Ghoul has its fair share of ambiguous morality, there is a little too much there for me to be comfortable slating Arima into the “villain” role. Even if there are parts of the manga that push for that. In fact, the extent to which some parts of the manga seem to make it so clear that Arima is just a mindless killing machine of the CCG seem all the more suspicious when contrasted with the parts that cast that into doubt. Like all of Jack.
And honestly, if he is part of V, that doesn’t negate this fact. In the end, Arima is set up as a foil to Kaneki, but that still allows a whole range of possibilities.
And like I said, in all likelihood, Arima and Furuta are both part of V.
I’m just stuck on the fact that they didn’t call Furuta directly. And that Furuta is associated already with at least one rival group in a way that doesn’t directly either A) integrate him into the ranks of Aogiri or B) provide him information on Aogiri in exchange, all while giving Aogiri the exact technology it would seem V would be most fearful of them getting.
The flower in the background is similar to a white chysanthemum.
From Wikipedia:
„In some countries of Europe incurved chrysanthemums are symbolic of death and are used only for funerals or on graves, while other types carry no such symbolism; similarly, in China, Japan and Korea, white chrysanthemums are symbolic of lamentation and/or grief.“
*raises death-flag for Hinami even higher*
Fortunately, I think it’s a clover flower to go with the clovers that are also there…
While the part 1 and the original draft of part 2 was written by me and @absolutetimeandspace, both of us ended discussing part 2’s final draft with @coromoor. As a result we wound up adding more topics to this after expanding on each other’s thoughts and ideas.
–
You’ll need to have read part 1 to understand what the hell is going on in part 2.
Main points we’ll be covering from part 1:
“…[T]he surgery work[s] better for individuals with lower Rc levels, while higher Rc runs the risk of the subjects becoming floppies (such as Amon) and/or developing the “nameless” syndrome seen in Dr. Kanou’s failed experiments.”
“NOTES: …Buuut one thing I can’t help but briefly mention is that Shirazu might have physical problems in the future (not RoS), and the fact that the cage around his kagune just broke in ch 53 just made it so much more likely. gl boi.”
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SHIRAZU
…[T]he surgery work[s] better for individuals with lower Rc levels, while higher Rc runs the risk of the subjects becoming floppies (such as Amon) and/or developing the “nameless” syndrome seen in Dr. Kanou’s failed experiments. – Part 1
The reason Light and I said Shirazu would have problems in the future was because we assumed he had a high Rc count before the Quinx surgery from shared genes with a sister suffering from ROS (giving him a predisposition for a higher count and lower quality) and as a result putting him at a higher risk of future complications with the compatibility of his kakuhou.
This point stems from what we’ve seen in Kanou’s failed experiments; a volatile kakuhou that can result in the host being devoured by the organ.
Since it’s nameless we’ll be calling it Kanou Lab syndrome (KLS) for now.
During the making of part 1 we concluded that if the metal frames around Shirazu’s kakuhou were to break down or be removed, he would develop some form of KLS. Though it was hard to say what the exact effect that would bring to a Quinx because of their different biology from artificial half-ghouls.
This brings us to what we believe is the real reason behind his death. Ishida’s shown Shirazu getting stabbed through the abdomen two times before the fatal third by Noro; first by Kobayashi, and second by Nutcracker.
So why did the third hit specifically(third time’s the charm) kill him when he shrugged off the other ones with no problem? It’s possible that it’s because the third wound was sustained when he was not a Quinx, but an artificial half-ghoul. Some theories at the time were reasoning that this could be a good thing because of the increased regeneration, but it seems that turning into a half-ghoul was what could have killed Shirazu. Once there were no frames separating the kakuhou and the human body, Shirazu would have instantly become a failed experiment and developed KLS. Instead of healing him, the kakuhou would begin to eat him alive and nullify any healing. Urie may have mistook this for the beginning signs of Quinx regeneration.
THE QUINX PROJECT
After Shirazu’s death was confirmed in the next chapters, we started to discuss the theory once again and realized that if this was the real reason he died, then the CCG might not have realized the cons in the criteria they use to find humans most compatible with the Quinx surgery. The problem could lie in them testing for Rc quantity – specifically individuals with abnormally high levels – with the intention of creating Quinx who would avoid eating human flesh because of a naturally occurring high reserve of Rc to sustain their bodies while also still being able to generate a kagune. The CCG’s criteria successfully gave them these exact results they were aiming for. Not only that but, while Part 1 states that the lower the Rc before the half-ghoul surgery, the stronger the resulting half-ghoul, the opposite happens for a Quinx; the higher the Rc before the Quinx surgery, the stronger the resulting Quinx. This is because a perfect Quinx doesn’t need human flesh to sustain its body, and the higher quantity creates a more durable kagune while still maintaining that fact (at least until you start removing frames to tap into ghoul strength).
But why can the Quinx get away with having a high Rc count before their surgery while artificial half-ghouls can’t? The answer is, they don’t. They still pay the price for it one way or another.
The thing is, while the CCG may see these large pros of choosing based on high Rc count, they might have yet to realize the equally as large cons. As we know, the problem with performing the ghoul surgery on people with average (and especially higher than average) Rc is that they become failed experiments, may develop KLS, and then risk falling victim to a volatile kakuhou. This means that the Quinx, who all have a high starting Rc count, would also suffer the same fate as Shirazu if their frames were to be removed. These frames are the only barriers preventing direct contact between the ghoulish organ and the incompatible human body; a life support for a body that shouldn’t be able to exist in the first place.
Essentially the Quinx surgery is a death sentence, and each Quinx a ticking time bomb. Results may vary for each individual considering there are different degrees of “floppy-ness”, but the overall effect could be devastating.
URIE
Now the fewer frames the closer a Quinx is to becoming a floppy half-ghoul. Urie is currently experiencing some of the side effects of this with the changes in his senses – specifically his sense of taste. His mental stability and/or health should also be degrading with each removal until the power boost drastically drops off after the last frame. Hopefully Kaneki’s jab at his strength won’t be the deciding factor for how far Urie is willing to take the frame removals, otherwise Kaneki could indirectly be the cause of Urie’s demise.
KANOU
The reason Kanou is so fascinated by the Shirazu’s frames is because the technology just opened up the possibility of a much higher “success” rate for his experiments, creating half-ghouls that would otherwise have end up as floppies.
Something Kanou said concerning the Quinx surgery in :re Chapter 59 was interesting.
Gradually acclimatizing a human body to a ghoul’s kakuhou
Obviously this seems to be the key to successfully creating a half-ghoul and is what the Quinx frames do so effectively. Post-transplant, a kakuhou must establish itself, or as Kanou says acclimate, to the new human host body. Kanou gave us a hint about this back in TG Chapter 99 that at the time didn’t make a lot of sense – the ghoul surgeries are linked to the RC cell walls that were found in his lab.
As long as the walls still have nutrients, it will continue to propagate and grow – it is self-sufficient with a constant supply of RC cells. Perhaps this phenomenon explains how KLS develops; a constant supply of RC cells allows to kakuhou to grow too rapidly and aggressively to a stage where it devours the body, rather than gradually acclimatising and becoming a part of the new host’s body. In Kaneki’s case, the combined results of a naturally low Rc level, blood loss from Rize’s attack and months of sustaining himself on only “sugar cubes” may have inhibited the kakuhou’s activity, and in turn its ability to aggressively propagate and digest the human host’s body.
TL;DR pain? pain.
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NOTES:
There are none this time because we’re too lazy to go over the parts on Saiko, Mutsuki, and the 7th Quinx that we took out.
(A: When two weird people meet, a theory might be born. Be careful with unwanted babies.)
The thing about Tokyo Ghoul is that Ishida hasn’t give us much information on the biology and science of half-ghouls. @absolutetimeandspace and I decide to work together and specifically look into this. What we’ve up come with is a weird (and hard to follow) crack theory. We’ll try to put down our thoughts as best we can.
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In chapter 99 of TG we learn that Kaneki is Dr. Kanou’s greatest successful experiment. Fast forward to chapter 44 of TG:re he says that Kaneki unintentionally developed into a complete experiment, a growing perfection that surpasses the other Rize-based cases, going on to stand on equal footing vs. an Owl-based half-ghoul – one with an Rc count over 3 times higher than his. This made us question how and why that happened.
We know that the main objective in using the Owl’s kakuhou was to create a powerful half-ghoul, yet why is Kaneki, who has an inferior kakuhou, still stronger than Takizawa? What makes Kaneki so special? (A:besides his tights?)
Other questions that came up along the way: Why do humans taste better to ghouls when ghouls are the ones with more Rc cells? Why do some humans taste and smell better than others?
The answers to all this might lie in the Rc count.
After looking into the key differences between the two breeds, we think that the Rc level and Rc ‘type’ (quality + age) is playing a big role on a half-ghoul’s strength. Our theory states that the lower the human’s starting Rc count, the stronger the resulting half-ghoul, while the higher it is the weaker and more likely the half-ghoul surgery will fail.
[ TG chapter 29 ]
Before jumping into everything we need to remember that the normal Rc count for a healthy human ranges from 200 – 500, compared to 1000 – 8000 for ghouls.
Rc Count + Quantity
Thankfully Ishida provided us with the Rc counts before and after the surgeries for most half-ghouls.
[ TG chapter 30 ] While Kaneki assumed that his count may be the same level as a human’s, we now know that during this time the number was at 911. This is much too high for a human, but also too low for a ghoul.
Coincidentally all of these people share the same trait: A below average Rc count. As a human, Takizawa barely staying in the normal range, while the twins and Kaneki’s were too low to even be considered healthy levels for any human.
The fact that these 4 successfully transitioned into half-ghouls might have something to do with the surgery working better for individuals with lower Rc levels, while higher Rc runs the risk of the subjects becoming floppies(such as Amon) and/or developing the “nameless” syndrome seen in Dr. Kanou’s failed experiments.
Rc Quality
[ TG:re chapter 43 ] Creativity + Intelligence = kagune shape Quality + Quantity = kagune size All of these are factored in to equal a ghoul’s strength and potential.
Using the Rc count we can guess the quality of a human’s Rc cells. This is important in predicting the resulting half-ghoul’s strength since a lower Rc indicates higher Rc quality.
For example, logically speaking if the average human body were to put aside 500 calories for Rc production and you were to take three humans – one producing low quality Rc cells, the second normal quality, and the last the highest – you’ll see that the Rc count will continue to decrease as quality increases. (N: I mean it’s only fair.)
This would have to do with higher quality Rc cells requiring more energy for production.
Diagram is hypothetical and is only being used to illustrate that higher quality Rc needs more energy per cell to produce.
Rc Production in Half-ghouls
Now going back to Kaneki and why he’s the special little hot shit that he is.
We know that his count was 170 while human, meaning he has the highest quality Rc that we’ve seen so far. This is still relevant information for after the surgery because half-ghouls should be producing their own Rc cells just like they did as humans.
The misunderstanding that they lose this ability may come from people being under the impression that transitioning from human to half-ghoul will simply change the body to having all of the same characteristics of a ghoul’s. The reason why this is incorrect is because the presence of a kakuhou does not directly result in the loss of Rc production, rather ghouls are born without the necessary functions required to make their own Rc cells. Half-ghouls, on the other hand, should have no issue with an already built in system.
This means that every human turned ghoul is still producing a small amount of their own Rc (does not mean they can live off that supply, as a ghoul’s body has a faster metabolism, immune system, and regeneration, which requires a massive amount of energy to maintain).
Kaneki’s constant supply of new high quality Rc cells are being stored in the kakuhou, and as a result increasing the quantity of the high quality Rc cells (note Eto saying having both results in a powerful kagune). This is something that normal ghouls, who are unable to produce their own Rc, will never be able to obtain. A ghoul’s Rc count is built up on old recycled Rc cells from humans, basically diminishing the quality to average or poor.
Eto + Natural Half-ghouls
As for Eto (a born half-ghoul) and the Quinx (not ghoul or half-ghoul) I can’t say it applies to them in the same way.
However since we know more about Eto, this being her ability to eat human food and her massive amount of quality Rc cells, we can guess that she was born with the ability to efficiently produce enough Rc to sustain her ghoul body (this is based on tumblr’s assumption that her diet is mostly ghoul/human free).
This puts her at a huge advantage over the ghouls, Quinx, and artificial half-ghouls. Even if her organs produced low or normal quality Rc, the quality would still be better than any ghoul’s and at a larger quantity than any half-ghoul’s.
This means that while artificial half-ghouls are superior to ghouls, natural half-ghouls are the ones at the top of the food chain.
Now if Eto has both high quality Rc along with the quantity, then that’s a bit terrifying isn’t it?
Why do humans taste better to ghouls when ghouls are the ones with more Rc cells?
I’m sure by this point it’s self explanatory why humans taste yummy while ghouls taste like shit.
Ghouls are naturally attracted to humans because of their newly made Rc (i.e. fresh organic food)(N:
Fresh Rc is happy Rc!), and are disgusted by other ghouls because of their recycled Rc supply (i.e. rotten or stale food), because no matter how large the quantity, gross food will still taste gross.
Kaneki being the literature major that he is, described in detail what a ghoul tastes like after taking his first bite.
[ TG chapter 64 ] Basically rotten food.
This also answers the question why some humans taste better than others, and generally why the seniors have a much blander taste. Same story for half-ghouls and why Kaneki specifically is the best thing Tsukiyama has ever experienced (N: all that fresh high quality Rc mmmm).
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NOTES:
That’s basically it. There was a lot more content involving RoS, Rc Scan Gates, human Rc types, Rize, Shirazu etc. but I decided to exclude it until I have better confirmation.
Funny I say that when this is crack theory post…
Buuut one thing I can’t help but briefly mention is that Shirazu might have physical problems in the future (not RoS), and the fact that the cage around his kagune just broke in ch 53 just made it so much more likely. gl boi.
–
Anyways thanks to @absolutetimeandspace for working with me on this, we became such good buddies in the process :’)
This post is the result of a discussion with @neropet earlier today. Credit to Nero for coming up with this idea in the first place, and for talking this post over with me while I was writing it.
With chapter 61, we learned some jaw dropping information about the One-Eyed King – that the King is not what we thought. Not only is the King not Eto, but the title apparently does not refer to any person. Instead, the King is a symbolic title that refers to a one-eyed ghoul who is going to change the world. So the King does not exist – yet.
There was speculation a few months ago about Eto’s goals in her confrontation with Sasaki on the roof, and the idea that perhaps she was trying to turn him into the new King.
That idea only seemed to grow stronger when the chapter “The Second King” came out, which prominently featured the fight between Eto and Sasaki, and may imply that he is the second king.
However, I think the biggest piece of evidence came from the most recent chapter, when Eto reveals to Aogiri that she is not the King.
She trails off, telling them, “The One-Eyed King is…”
And the very next panels contain none other than Sasaki, when she finishes her sentence and concludes, “Not me.”
Also notably, on this page, Arima and Furuta are speaking about him as well, and apparently V has taken an interest in him. The last we heard of V, they were looking for Eto, the one-eyed ghoul who they believed was upsetting the balance of the world.
V may see him as another threat to this balance, which is exactly what Eto has in mind for the One-Eyed King.
So, if this is actually Eto’s plan, and she wants him to take on this title, how does she plan to convince him to do so? Why would he want to associate with her, after everything she’s done?
We know she’s already started to manipulate him, the same way she has done to her past victims, by targeting them where they are most vulnerable.
She licks his eye and tells him she likes him and they are the same, and that stuns him into inaction for a few moments:
And then when he deals a serious blow to her, cutting her body in half, she strikes again, and tells him she loves him.
We know that he wants to be loved. Eto knows that he wants to be loved. She tells him that purposefully, to get under his skin. And his reaction to her words is starkly different from the way he spoke to her during their fight, rudely and abrasively. He says that he’s honored.
It seems like Eto’s tactics were not ineffective.
Since his change on the roof during that fight, we have not seen into his thoughts the way we used to. It’s been unsettling to not know what the main character is thinking. But we have gotten one glimpse into his thoughts in this time, and it was a thought about her:
Although, certainly her manipulations were not enough alone. He has not suddenly joined her side. He has continued to target her in the six months that passed between their fight and the present day in TG:re, and is still apparently focused on eliminating her.
So why would she think that he would fulfill the role she has in mind for him, if her efforts to change him on the roof were not enough? What if she has another method up her sleeve? Another way to tie him to her more securely?
Perhaps a physical tie, like her kagune?
There’s two other people that Eto has given her kagune to, and both of those people are associated with clocks, and time:
Noro is always with Eto, and when he’s not, he’s been depicted with a clock. He watches the clock carefully, and takes action at certain times. Why is this? Perhaps this was for the Aogiri raid, when there was a raid on Cochlea going on at the same time. But the other person who was given Eto’s kagune was tortured with clocks, and this seems like too much of a coincidence.
Additionally, during the fight on the roof, Eto taunts, “We don’t have much time. You are about to meet your maker.”
There was a time limit to this fight, apparently imposed by Eto. Perhaps the same was true of Noro, and that was why he was either always with her, or watching a clock. Perhaps the powers she gifts by implanting her kagune only last so long, before they result in decay of the person she implanted it in?
We know how Noro ended up:
Perhaps this is the end result of her kagune implantation? And perhaps something similar may happen to Sasaki?
She’s given Sasaki her kagune in a similar way to what we’ve seen her do before.
When Eto first confronts Kanae/Karren, the scene ends with a black panel and a “bite” sound effect, implying someone ate something. Based on what we saw happen in future chapters, and Eto’s words leading up to that moment, I think it’s safe to say she fed Kanae an “apple”, her kagune.
And we saw her feed someone else something similar, 15 chapters later:
We also know that she intentionally left this for Sasaki, and she wonders about how he enjoyed her gift, and how his arm has regrown:
We also know that now his arm looks freaking weird:
Did she know something like this would happen?
And finally, to add onto this idea about time being connected to her kagune implantation, Sasaki is desperately searching for her, and becomes infuriated when he can’t find her. And in this panel, we see him counting down days on a calendar. We also see that the scaling on his hand extends up his arm, past his elbow, far past where his arm was severed.
Is his arm worsening? Has he realized that there is some kind of limit? Is that why he’s focused on finding her himself, without telling the CCG about the information he has on her?
tl;dr: What if a side effect of Eto’s kagune implantation is a time limit on the person, forcing them to return to Eto to minimize or postpone any ill effects? And what if this is the case with Sasaki, providing Eto with a physical tie to him in order to force him into the role she wants for him – the role of the One-Eyed King, the half ghoul who will change the world?
This probably shocks no one as I worry about every character that passes though Tokyo Ghoul but…
Itou didn’t appear in Chapter 59 when Urie appeared representing the Quinx Squad as leader with Aura. Suzuya appeared representing the Suzuya Squad with Hanbee and Takeomi appeared representing Itou squad alone?
We know he survived his wounds as he showed up with Takeomi and Hirako to say goodbye to his dead squad members which is good, but at the same time he looked very upset which kind of makes me wonder if he left and couldn’t handle the job anymore.
It could just be Takeomi took over for Itou maybe because while Itou survived his injuries the damage prevented him from working, or the CCG shifted leadership around because everyone in Itou squad except seemingly Itou and Takeomi died.
Then again all the other squads had a leader and a second member and Takeomi came alone so maybe Takeomi was the second member representing Itou? But why?
(X) Then of course Ishida just recently drew Itou and while I know it was technically for January 10th because of the “Itou Day” pun I get the distinct impression that Ishida’s not making new art for everyday in the calendar. Also Ishida’s just drawn a lot of Itou lately in the calendar or elsewhere, so I’m worried Ishida’s planning something with him…
Quite frankly I’ve been worried about Itou ever since he was injured in TG:RE Chapter 49 by Noro.
Which greatly resembled the still unexplained attack on Banjou’s ribs by Eto…
CUE THE CONJECTURE!
Okay so the Itou injury is weird because it looked a lot like the injuries inflicted on Banjou. The Banjou injury was weird because Eto tore out rib bones from Banjou and called them “seeds.”
It was strange because of what seeds was probably a reference to the rib “seed” of Adam.
We all know that Eto love the book of Genesis in the bible often referencing the garden of Eden, Eve, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Famously in the book of Genesis god created woman from a piece of Adam’s rib.
A short time after Eto messed up Banjou’s even though yes Kaneki also
stabbed Banjou his kagune appeared for the first time ever. and it was an odd moment (funnily enough Banjou was an ukaku, like someone else we know).
We all know that Eto has “seeded” an Eve before with her “bone” (probably kakuhou). It’s not completely strange to think she pulled something with Banjou.
And seeing it seems like Noro was just like Kanae but more advanced. It’s not so strange to think he could have effected Itou in some way… or left something behind. How long was the time between Kuramoto’s deadly seeming injury and the funerals…
It’s way way to early to say anything for certain. But I want to see Kuramoto with his left and right eyes open…
Relatable FE Quote or Something 